Steve Coogan: Why Margaret Thatcher appealed to 'disenfranchised' Brits
In an exclusive interview with Emily Maitlis, Steve Coogan reflects on how political outsiders with a “clear vision”, like Margaret Thatcher, resonate more than centre-ground politicians who play it too safe.
Listen to this article
Read time: 3 minutes
In brief:
- Channel 4's new drama ‘Brian and Maggie’ stars Steve Coogan as Brian Walden, a broadcaster whose friendly relationship with Margaret Thatcher ended after a pivotal 1989 interview that contributed to her downfall.
- Coogan identifies with both characters as "outsiders" and while he disagrees with Thatcher's policies, he respects that she had clear convictions - unlike today's politicians who he sees as overly cautious and risk-averse.
- Coogan says politicians like Nigal Farage and Donald Trump resonate with the disenfranchised because of the failure of “the centre ground to offer a clear vision”.
What’s the story?
Steve Coogan grew up in a household that “deplored” Margaret Thatcher.
So it’s fitting that his latest role is as Brian Walden, a Labour politician-turned-broadcaster who built a friendship with Thatcher over a decade of interviewing her, of which the final one played a part in her downfall.
New Channel 4 drama Brian and Maggie sees Thatcher (played by Harriett Walker) take a liking to Walden, partly because of their similar upbringings - lower middle class kids from the midlands who received scholarships to Oxford and rose to the top of their fields – and partly, because he went easy on her in their interviews.
But that all changed in their most infamous exchange. In 1989 Walden questioned Thatcher on her Chancellor Nigel Lawson resigning, a moment widely believed to have contributed to public opinion on Thatcher shifting.
Three million people watched the broadcaster ask the Prime Minister; "You come over as being someone who one of your backbenchers said is slightly off her trolley, authoritarian, domineering, refusing to listen to anybody else — why?Thatcher responded: "Brian, if anyone's coming over as domineering in this interview, it's you."The interview was a blow to Thatcher, and turned out to be her last as Prime Minister, as she resigned in November 1990.
The benefits of being a political outsider
Coogan thinks he’s in a unique position to understand both main characters in the two-part series, having grown up in a lower middle class household himself.
“I identify with Brian Walden as an outsider, and in terms of class, I sort of identify with Margaret Thatcher as an outsider,” he tells Emily Maitlis in an exclusive interview on The News Agents.
Coogan believes that Thatcher being ‘the shopkeeper’s daughter’ resonated with people, but there was an irony that the person perceived as being from outside of the establishment became its “agent”.
Outsiders, Coogan says, will always appeal to the disenfranchised.
“The centre ground of British politics is about trying to keep the train on the tracks and not do anything too radical,” he says, but adds that a politics of pragmatism doesn’t help the disenfranchised, who don’t see their situation change.
“It doesn't matter if the Tories are in or if Labour are in, nothing really changes. So anyone that comes and positions themselves as any kind of outsider, they attract those people's attention.”
“Brexit was attractive to people who had completely disenfranchised because it seemed better than what we had. Anything that upsets the apple cart has got to be good”
But, Emily points out, class doesn’t always go hand in hand with being perceived as an ‘outsider’ in politics - take Donald Trump and Nigel Farage, for example.
”Nigel Farage portrays himself as the outsider, but he went to Dulwich College, he worked in foreign exchange. Trump the billionaire portrays himself as the outsider.”
Ironically, she notes that Keir Starmer gets cast as the “arch establishment stooge” but of them all, came from the most "modest" background.
“The fact that these billionaires are able to frame themselves as outsiders is the failure of the centre ground to offer a clear vision,” Coogan thinks.
“People are so terrified of making mistakes or slipping on banana skins or having something in social media because they made a mistake.
“They’re risk averse, so nobody says anything they really believe in. Thatcher did do that, and she wasn't worried about people disliking her. That's a good thing, leaving aside the fact that a lot of the policies, I think, failed, she had a clear vision.”
What does Steve Coogan think of today’s politicians?
Before the general election Coogan said he felt “politically homeless”. He tells Emily that six months into the Labour government he doesn’t feel much better, saying “there’s no vision at all”.
He thinks Keir Starmer’s “wooly responses” are akin to an insurer looking at an evaluation, thinking ‘what’s the least damaging thing to say’.
“So things slowly edge forward with no real momentum, but with no potential pitfalls”.
In contrast, while he didn’t agree with Thatcher, he respects that she had a “clear ideology” rather than the “‘make do and amend’ approach most modern politicians today suffer from”.
“What you want,” Coogan suggests, “is someone with the presentation skills of Trump who has the welfare of most people, of the disempowered, at the forefront of their mind. Those people haven't come along yet.”
But it’s not all doom and gloom, the actor says if he tries to look at the positives of the UK’s current leadership, at least he can say; “We’re not as bad as what’s going on over there” and “be grateful we aren’t in a dictatorship.”
“That’s probably the most positive I can be”.